No Rights for Submissives?

I have been thinking about writing this blog post for a long time. But the concepts to be communicated are so difficult to set out elegantly that I have been procrastinating. However, today I have decided to have a go.

Of course a submissive like bitch-boy has no rights under my roof. My domestic tyranny holds sway in all things. What this post is about is the concept of true submissives having the right not to be discriminated against because of their sexuality – in the same way gay and lesbian people have that right – at least in countries where the politicians have the required levels of intelligence and wisdom to be working at creating a civilised society. I hope my gay and lesbian friends are not offended, but if I look back 50 years ago in the UK, it was unlawful for gay men to have sex. It was an illegal act which could result in a prison term, and often did. And gay men were discriminated against in the workplace and elsewhere. But gay men do not choose to be gay and the evidence is becoming overwhelming that being gay is substantially genetic. As I understand it, gay men usually know they are gay before adolescence.

Well, I have so many times, come across submissives, like bitch-boy, who knew they were submissive well before adolescence. Usually between the ages of 6 and 11. I would bet my favourite cane that being submissive is also substantially genetic. I wonder if I would be making an accurate prediction by saying that in perhaps, 25 years, being submissive will be like being gay and not incur discrimination in civilised countries? At the moment, in most countries, when a submissive is physically disciplined by a dominant, that dominant is committing the offense of assault. But this discipline is part of the sex-life the submissive needs and wants.

Then there is the added complication of consent. I just laugh when I see the old mantra for BDSM play of ‘Sane, Safe and Consensual’. I have set out my views, supported overwhelmingly by submissives who leave comments, that a submissive does not want to consent to what happens to them when being dominated. If they consent, they are in charge and are therefore not content. So it all gets quite tricky. I can imagine a standard contract, accepted by society, that might be signed before a submissive and dominant embark on a relationship where the sub consents to enduring whatever the dominant wants to do, forever more. (I guess there should be some hard limits included in the terms and conditions. And if the hard limits were too fettering for the Dominant, then the Dominant would have to find another sub.)

At the moment just about all people in a Dom/Sub relationship have to keep the nature of their lifestyle very secret from vanilla people and from society. They could be sacked from their jobs, refused access to hotels or restaurants or shops, etc, were their secret to come out. Just how it was for gay men 50 years ago.

Is there any organisation which is pushing for the rights for submissives? I am not sure there is.

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20 Responses to No Rights for Submissives?

  1. andy says:

    An interesting concept in evolving Law.A very valid observation though, in the court of human rights can a person want and receive what appears to be controlling influence.
    A question will also arise as how depicting such acts between consenting people, is viewed in the last act on Pornagraphic images and the possesion there of.

  2. Scott says:

    I’ve often thought along these lines and have mentioned that it’s much easier to be homosexual in society these days, than it is to be a heterosexual submissive or dominant. I too feel like I was born this way and am not so by choice and for some reason I want everyone to know; but of course few do.

  3. subby says:

    Greetings, Mistress Scarlet

    I too knew myself to be submissive before 8 years old. Clearly remember all of my adolescent fantasies being about submission too. And certainly agree that the loss of control is an essential aspect of fulfilment for a real submissive.

    Thank you for expressing our needs, Mistress

  4. slave g says:

    I believe that being submissive is substantially genetic as is being dominant, and most people live in a suppressed way of life rather than who they truely are as beings. I am guilty of this too. And the general law of nature is that opposites attract, opposites continue life. Dominants and submissives need each other, I could never understand why it is fullfiling being a dominant just as much most dominants can’t understand why it is fullfiling for a submissive, we are who we are and need the opposite in some form. I have always felt submissve to Females since childhood primary school when i first realised Girls, i instantly felt submissive to them all and have never ever felt any other way since. My fantasies & needs have only ever been being submisisve to a Woman. Its not just a sexual thing for me and runs very deep inside me on many levels, every bone in my body is submissive to the Feminine, everything about Her and this is what makes me the most happiest and fullfiled. But in society having to conceal this is vey frustrating as i am not being whom i really am, though i try to show it in other subtle ways like always letting a Lady board a train before me or holding doors for Her, walking around Her in the street so she can walk on straight undisturbed etc. I agree that in 25 years it will be the normal a dominant and submissive relationship and accepted in society, though getting to this natural level isn’t going quick enough for me. When i was a teenager, there was no internet like today and only magazines which were hard to get hold of, it was very secret and closed, nowadays there are many communites and websites etc and it is now becoming normal and really grown. i wish i was born now as by the time i reached adulthood, my path in life would be very different

  5. Sissy Candy says:

    Dear Mistress Scarlet,
    The nearest organisation I am aware of in BDSM advocacy is, which campaigned (unsuccessfully) against introduction of section 63 of the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008 (possession of ‘extreme pornography’). Unfortunately, I fear it would be difficult to explain the idea of a submissive (like myself – I know exactly what you’re talking about) consenting to non-consensual dominance, to policy-makers in Westminster. Sorry to come over as a BDSM version of Eey-Ore!

  6. 11754 says:

    I have been a submissive since I was 10 years old. I do not know if it is genetic, but I do know it is a key part of my sexuality.

    I have attended BDSM events in several hotels. The hotel if fully aware of our activities and allows us to do what we want to do. We go the restaurants in the hotels, etc. Also, I have taken my toys on planes in my carry on luggage so I know that my toys are viewed by security. I have no problem taking them with me.

    I just attended a long event in a resort. The owner, chef, service people, etc. all l know about the things we do and accept us.

    I have consented to be the slave of my Owner. I asked Her to dominate me. But, I do not control what She does to me. She is most pleased when I am in great pain. I accept whatever She plans for me. I beg Her to be merciful and She ignores me. I trust Her not to damage Her toy.

    Submissives must be careful. It is not smart to have a doctor’s appointment after a long session with a Dominant. I know one Dominant who was almost arrested when his submissive had a medical appointment the day after a long flogging.

    Many people talk about Fifty Shades of Grey. But, someone who has a D/s relationship is still a despised pervert.

    I am on Fetlife and see many people who have adopted my lifestyle. This is my community. I am not interested in vanilla life. I spent a last weekend with 60 kinksters. I felt so good to be with like minded people.

    Thank you for writing about this topic.


  7. rick says:

    i totally agree ,my earliest semi sexual thoughts were about being tied up, dressed like a girl and having to wait on a friend of my mothers. I was only 8 or 9 and didn’t even realize these were sexual . I’ve never been able to be fully dominated as your bitch boy. I’m sure even at the height of his humiliation and pain he still is reaching a level of satisfaction and acceptance that I have never found.

    • Scott says:

      “I’ve never been able to be fully dominated as your bitch boy. I’m sure even at the height of his humiliation and pain he still is reaching a level of satisfaction and acceptance that I have never found.”

      The same goes for me.

  8. jmv0405 says:

    Dear Ms. Scarlet,

    I very much enjoy this blog, but for this particular post you are a little confused. I am a second year law student in Virginia, and while I am no expert on this stuff, much of your concerns really don’t play out across the law-at least here in the states. Further, at least here, there is an organization known as the National Coalition for Sexual Freedom, which does exactly what you are concerned about.

    The reasons your concern don’t play out in the law are actually very complex, which goes a long way towards explaining why it is not obvious to you that the law can handle this issue. For instance, you are not actually committing either assault or battery when you beat bitch boy. For one, consent is a defense to both assault and battery. (Assault is making someone fearful of an imminent battery, and battery is striking the individual). Under the criminal law, this remains true. Furthermore, if you reasonably believe that bitch boy is consenting and you engage in battery, you will have the mistake of fact defense to the alleged battery. (Because of the facts known to you, you couldn’t have had the mental state necessary to commit a crime). However, I am making this sound easier than it it, because if bitch boy decided to take you to court, it’s fairly difficult to prove that “please, no stop” isn’t a removal of consent. However, if you only looked at the necessary elements for battery and assault it would look as if your actions fit into those categories with specificity. To keep it short, (unlike above) your reasonable belief that bitch boy would consent to your actions-even if he does not like them-means that you are not committing assault or battery legally speaking. Now, proving that factually can be another matter entirely. Also, be aware that consent does not have to happen vis-a-vis each action you take-it can be across a whole spectrum of actions with one major caveat: A person cannot consent, even in a contract, to be your slave under the law as this would violate the 13th Amendment.

    Finally, hotels and restaurants do not have the right to discriminate like you suggest in the United States, at least. That is a misunderstanding of the interplay between civil rights statutes such as Title VII and the Fourteenth Amendment. The Fourteenth Amendment gives all citizens equal protection under the law and this means (for reasons that are a bit difficult to go into here), that no entity that serves people across states lines can intentionally discriminate for any reason whatsoever. All the civil rights statutes do, generally speaking, is expand that and allow for claims of disparate impact-where there is no intentional discrimination, but the effect of any action has a discriminate impact on one group vis-a-vis another group. Finally, at least here, the EEOC has made it clear that it considers discrimination based on transgender identity or based on being gay to be discrimination under the broad category of “sex”. (Discrimination based on sex is in the statute itself, the others are not). While it hasn’t happened yet, I see no reason why employment discrimination based on being submissive wouldn’t fall under the same category.

    Finally, I want to make the point that actually took me a while to figure out. Nobody cares. Literally, all of us kinksters seem to have it in our head that other people will judge us or won’t accept us if we “come out”. For the most part, my experience has taught me that the vast majority of people couldn’t give two shits what consenting adults do in their own bedrooms, especially when those two adults are male and female. (This seems ironic, but it’s not here because the Bible in America still holds a lot of sway over some states and it does say no man on man action. Notably, it never forbids girl on girl, which just goes to show that even in the 4th Century B.C. everybody loved watching girls getting it on.) So, the vast majority of the persecution vis-a-vis the bdsm world is just in our own heads. And the vast majority of possible discrimination that could occur against us would have very clear legal remedies. Of course, the law has very real difficulties dealing with rape allegations that arise under SM relationships, but the law has a lot of difficulty with rape allegations in general because of the he-said she-said reality of that specific crime. I know very little of this was probably helpful to you in Britain, but hopefully it helps you make sense a little bit of this somewhat thorny legal issue.

    Oh, and just to be clear-this is not legal advice. (You have to say that on like everything in the U.S. before you pass the bar. It’s really annoying because I think you can see that this wasn’t legal advice.)



    • I guess you have not done the module yet on providing concise legal advice!

      The USA must be quite different from the UK. Only a couple of years ago, several men got prosecuted for assault who had been doing BDSM stuff at a gay BDSM orgy. Even though the submissives gave evidence that they consented to it all, there was a video of the activity so the dominants got prosecuted nonetheless because consent could not given for assault. Also in the UK new anti-domestic abuse legislation has just been passed and the definitions of abuse exactly describe the slave/Dominant lifestyle!

      I also worry about you thinking most of society is accepting of the BDSM lifestyle. Perhaps you live in California and most of your friends are post graduate types. I am sure if you were led into a bar by a Mistress in rural Utah or Texas on a leash, dressed as a little girl, and knelt at her feet, you would get your butt kicked BIGSTYLE! Equally if you walked into hotels in that manner in anywhere other than California or New York, I bet 90% of the hoteliers would refuse to have you staying. And your legal views on this are just theoretical by the sound of it.

      From my experience Germany, Holland, Sweden and Denmark are the only countries in the world where BDSM had at least begun to be accepted by mainstream society.

  9. Sissy Candy says:

    Dear Mistress Scarlett,
    In case you are interested, here is a link the new ‘domestic abuse’ law (due to come into force soon): the long arm of the law gropes further into our private lives!
    I will stop being depressing now – sorry!

  10. darkhorsesub says:

    So this happened a few days back – it’s a confused report in terms of what the couple were actually doing, but it suggests that the man’s consent was relevant ->

  11. lowest of the low says:

    I’m not disputing the proposition that submissive behavior is genetic/”inborn”, but I do have to say that in my case at least, I happily went through 50 years or so without the least understanding of this aspect of my personality. While I certainly always preferred the company of females to males and was never into stereotypical “guy” stuff as a youngster, I never had any notion of being submissive towards women. In fact, looking back on the past, I had a certain interest in giving spankings and the like, but I’m now inclined to think that in doing so I was sort of sublimating my own unrecognized desire to be spanked. Only in the past few years have I really figured out what I “need” and been able to bring myself to tell my poor vanilla wife. She’s “understanding”, but deep down, I’m pretty sure she could never bring herself to treat me in the way that I coyly describe as being “mean” (by which I mean that I’d like her to tie me down and leave me with serious bruises etc.). Anyway (I gather you like concision, so I apologize for my lack of brevity), I just want to say that whereas others here seem to have known from a remarkably early age what they were like, I can say that I had no inkling for a very long time, was quite mistaken about my own needs and inclinations, and have only recently figured out what I’m really like because of the things one can read on the internet (including this blog, which I find appealing in a sort of horrified way; I’m pretty sure what goes on here is a lot more extreme than what I myself would be “down for”, though I suspect I’ll never find out).

    I’ve sort of become reconciled to what I’m like, but I still not infrequently find it embarrassing and I also feel bad about making “demands” of my wife that I think she’d never be able to satisfy (or want to). While the “urges” that drive me are very insistent, I do sometimes wish I could be more “normal” so as not to impose on my wife, who probably puts up with more from me than I have any right to expect. (Topping from the bottom isn’t really very submissive, is it?)

    • Thank you for the information. All factual data is useful. You show good awareness and compassion in thinking of your wife as you do.

      • lowest of the low says:

        Well, since part of the reason why I fell in love with her is that she’s the nicest and kindest person I’ve ever met (setting aside the flaming red hair and great body…), I can hardly complain if she finds it hard to wield a whip. She does try to be accommodating, so I try to be moderate in my requests. I’m pretty sure that nettles in a bag would be right out!😉

  12. Sissy Debbie says:

    Mistress Scarlet,

    I hope that one day it is more excepted by society, I think it makes it hard for women to share the lifestyle with other women- when the fear of societal judgement is ever looming. I’m sure this crosses my Mistresses mind, if the thought of bringing in her friends has ever came into her thoughts.

    I can personally attest, as a submissive I do not want to consent, Mistress would hardly be able to punish me or subject me to humiliation due to my whining. However I’m thankful she is fully in control, I feel it makes me of better service to her. She knows what’s best and I’m learning to accept that.

    Just as you explain to Bitch boy is journal six, when you tuck him into bed at 6:30PM, you know what’s best for him. Oh I hope Mistress doesn’t put me to bed that early!!!!


    Madam Vittoria’s slave
    Sissy Debbie

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